School Assembly S3E11: Series 3 Final
A children’s book published by Notre Dame P-12 College, featuring Dan McShea, to be used as a reading resource for primary students. Image: LinkedIn

Hello, Dominique Russell here from Teacher magazine and before we get into today’s exciting episode – the final episode for School Assembly Series 3 with our usual host, Teacher Editor Jo Earp – I wanted to share some exciting news: Little J & Big Cuz is nominated for Best Children’s Program in the 2025 Logies! This beloved series is created by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities to support deeper understandings of Country and community, as well as preparing young learners for school. Support the show and cast your vote online today at littlejandbigcuz.com.au.   

Hello and thanks for downloading this podcast from Teacher – I’m Jo Earp. Welcome to Episode 11 of Series 3 of School Assembly – yes, we’ve actually reached the final episode today! So, School Assembly – if you don’t know – that’s the podcast where we find out what it takes to build a school from the ground up. And, for the last 12 months we’ve been following Dan McShea, Foundation Principal of Notre Dame P-12 College in Bells Creek, on Queensland’s Sunshine Coast. 

As I said, it’s the final episode and that’s where we get a chance to reflect on the journey but also the podcast experience. We’ll be finding out about Dan’s expectations going into the role compared to the reality; there’ll be the usual key learning, challenge and achievement, what’s planned for the next 12 months, and there’s also an invitation to visit! I loved recording this one – I hope you enjoy it too. 

Jo Earp: Hi, Dan. It’s always lovely to catch up with you, and I need to make the most of this one, actually, because we’ve reached the final episode. But, before we spend a bit of time looking back, what’s this I hear about you being the star of a new book? 

Daniel McShea: Oh, Jo, it’s yeah. Look, it was a surprise. I don’t have that much ego that I’d ask for a book to be published. But our team did produce a reading tool for our primary students called Mr McShae and his Magic Hat. I do wear a big black Akubra around the school. The book is a beautiful book and it was actually published and has been sold just to our school community for the occasion of our official opening and blessing and the Magic Hat book is all about our Notre Dame way: courage, compassion, hope, love of work, family spirit, presence. And so it’s a beautiful book and I was very humbled and grateful that my amazing team did that secretly, wrote it, illustrated it, and had it published and available for our community to purchase on the occasion of our opening and blessing, so I don’t think I’ve got it here actually. There’s a picture of that (the listeners can’t see that) but I can send you a copy Jo and you might want to read it. Okay. 

JE: I would love a copy. What a lovely story to start off. So we’re going to spend a bit of time … 

DM: But my family, my family’s been stitching me up about that.  

JE: I bet they have, but that’s a lovely thing for the staff to do and in secret as well. And what a lovely surprise. So we’re going to spend a bit of time reflecting on what’s happened over the last 12 months or so. Now I want to take you back to August 15th, 2024. Where were you on that date? No. That’s when the first episode of Series 3 aired. And just for listeners who are not aware, we’d followed Principal Dr Ray Boyd and Assistant Principal Rachel Lehr at Dayton Primary in Perth, Western Australia, in Series 1. And then Principal Jo Camozzato at the dual campus Bemin Secondary College in Melbourne, Victoria, that was for Series 2. So it’s been fantastic to focus on a P-12 this time around. Notre Dame College. You’re up there on Queensland’s Sunshine Coast and we’ve been catching up basically every month. I’m interested in how you’ve found the whole podcast experience then. 

DM: Oh, look, it was a concept that was really, really foreign to me when you first approached me, Jo.  I wasn’t sure whether anyone has or was going to listen to that. But it has been a really rewarding process for me. It’s provided a good platform to share our journey, our challenges and successes with a wider group, but also to reflect on our progress each month has been a great way to stay pretty grounded in the journey that we’ve been on and to appreciate the milestones that we’ve achieved. It’s also been inspiring to hear about the experiences of other school leaders because I have gone and listened to some of your previous podcasts on the back of that and to know that, you know, we’re all part of a larger community working towards pretty similar goals. 

JE: Yeah, it’s interesting that, isn’t it, because there have been some themes that have come through from all the principals that we’ve spoken to. Now, something that was quite different with yours. You’d actually been appointed principal at the start of 2024 and of course the school opened in January 2025. Again, it’s quite a time to go back, but I’m sure you can recall it. Going back to the appointment then, what were your expectations, and not anxieties, but maybe you know, what were you thinking about, maybe the pressure points? I know you’d worked in a new school a couple of times before. Now we’re here then, and the school’s open. You’ve had a really great start to the year. How have those expectations and thoughts about those pressure points or anxieties, how have they compared to the reality? 

DM: Look it has been a pretty incredible journey and to have that whole year in 2024 was a luxury that some of my predecessors haven’t had even in our system. At one point they had a term or a semester and then the last couple of new schools that we’ve opened, the principal’s had the full year. When I was appointed, my expectations were really high, but I guess so were my anxieties. You are acutely aware that you have one opportunity to get it right. And when I say that, I’m probably particularly talking about the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that it is to build your own team and to recruit your leadership team and your staff. And I was really hopeful and aware of, you know, [it] wouldn’t matter what industry you’re in, the chance to do that is so special if you can get it right. 

And having worked in some new schools before, not as a principal, but I did have some awareness of some of the challenges that lay ahead, especially around developing culture and [ensuring] everything was ready for the first day of school this year. And you know, I was and am incredibly grateful to have had this opportunity to build the school culture that my team’s… build the team first. But you know, then develop a culture that we’ve dreamed about as a team. But you’re also constantly aware that if you mess it up it’s your own fault. And so look, we’ve had an incredible start. It’s only, you know, still the first semester, it is a honeymoon period. I’m well aware of that. But I wouldn’t change too many things about the journey so far. The To Do list that we, you know, developed and kept developing each week last year seemed insurmountable at times. And that was our process. We’d have a new To Do list each week and we’d be ticking things off. But with each new team member that joined us last year, by the end of the year there was 8 people in our little office, our focus shifted and narrowed and momentum built more momentum. And look, we kicked a lot of goals at the end of the last year, and we also did a lot of extra things with parent engagement and community building and marketing and it was fun and it was exciting. And we’ve got a lot of traction from that with the awareness that this is a unique community, that everyone’s moved into new homes on new streets. It’s a new burgeoning city of Aura with 50,000 people moving in here in the next 20 years. Everyone’s come from somewhere. 

And look, now that the school’s open and we’ve had a had a good start, we’ve developed a strong culture. Most of those anxieties have been alleviated. Now they shift to the next wave of recruitment and the next wave of building and the students that will join us next year. But we’re really proud to say that this is a vibrant, innovative community with a very strong family spirit and staff that love coming to work and that’s evident in every staff member. That’s pretty contagious for our kids and for our parents and for the entire community. And so the reality of all that planning and all that work coming to life this first semester has, you know, absolutely been way, way more rewarding than I could have possibly anticipated and that’s thanks to the collective effort of what’s a great team and a great community. 

JE: Yeah. One thing that’s come through every time I’ve spoken to is how much fun you’re having there, actually, which is good. 

DM: I think it’s important that, you know, teaching’s such a good profession, such a noble profession and we need people that love their jobs. And if they don’t, I really think they should do something else. I love my job as a principal and it’s got its highs and lows in it and we all work too hard. But the day I stop loving it I’ll absolutely go and take on a different role because it’s too important. 

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JE: You mentioned the system. You’re in the Catholic Education system, Brisbane Education system there. In that first episode you were saying, I think you’re actually talking about the current reality. You were saying that uncertainty about delivery dates and buildings was potentially the biggest challenge you had at the time. But you also talked about the need to be flexible. Has that been the big thing for you looking back over the last 12 months, then; flexibility? 

DM: Yeah. Look, I think it’s a necessary requirement of a school leader and even a school teacher, that adaptability and flexibility. And yeah, it’s certainly been highlighted through this process. We’ve had to have a plan A, B and C for, you know, every sort of occasion. And that’s fine. That’s something that is a challenge that I enjoy. But, yeah, absolutely. That’s been the case even at the start of the year, we were in hard hats in only one building the 2 days before students came back, with teachers having no access to their rooms until the day before students came back. So that was a challenge. That was a challenge that our staff embraced. We now have access to everything, but we’re about to go into a building stage next year which will see us a construction site in 5 different parts of our school that will be separate construction sites while we’re operating. So it’s only going to get harder next year and after that I think we get a pretty smooth run because we just build out from the centre. So next year is going to be fun as well, Jo. 

JE: That sounds good. Is there any point at which you thought ‘we’re not going to make this’; ‘this is not going to happen’, or did you kind of like… you seemed pretty confident all the way through? 

DM: Yeah. Look, we’ve had a, you know, a great team behind the scenes and you know, if we had have had a big construction delay, which you know some of our schools have had that, and they’ve had to start a term later, borrowing demountables, we would have got through that. That would have been okay. The actual reality is – and it’s a beautiful state-of-the-art learning precinct that we’re building here – but the reality is with the people that we’ve got, you could be in a marquee on the oval and you’d be able to offer quality teaching and learning because it’s all about the people and the culture and you know, as I said, it’s early stages, but there are some really good green shoots of that here at the moment. 

JE: Yeah, just on the people and one thing that came through in those – particularly the second series, I remember speaking to Jo Camozzato and we were going through a really bad period of you know recruitment challenges around the country. And you seem like that’s not been too bad for you, am I right in thinking that’s kind of eased or has that been okay in your context? 

DM: Yep. We’ve had, you know, in our first year we were very lucky. We had, I think we had 700 applications for 28 jobs. Primary teachers – those roles were, you know, heavily sought after. There was, we only took 5 primary classroom teachers, and I think there’s about 150 in there. So our jobs were really sought after, the Sunshine Coast is a really rapidly growing area. It’s a desirable location to live. So I think that that insulates us quite a bit from the teacher shortages that we see in other areas – and they are still happening and they are still the case for many people. I hope that continues to be the case for us. You know, the people that joined us, including the families that joined us, did so on a dream and a promise. They never saw our school, it wasn’t built, they couldn’t put their feet on the ground. So they’ve taken a risk as well, leaving places that they loved and I’m sure were loved. They’re great teachers who’ve come and joined us. So we appreciate that and I hope that now that we’re up and running and you can see it and feel it; that we might be more attractive to a staff member looking for a new opportunity. 

JE: I’m actually going to break with the tradition for the final episode to do this for the final one – bringing forward the 3 questions that we always ask at the end, but I want you to think about the last 12 months. Which is tricky to choose, but I’m going to get you to say it all the same (good luck) we’re going to go proudest achievement, biggest hurdle and key learning. 

DM: The proudest achievement is you know, there’s not enough times in our life where we just say ‘We did it, we got there’ because we’re always looking for the next thing, and the next thing happens pretty quickly after the previous thing. But we actually officially opened and blessed our school on Friday just gone and that actually happened on what is our college feast day, the feast day of our St Marcellin Champagnat. That was just a perfect day and it was such a moment to say ‘Yes, we did it. We got there, we’re up and running.’ Our students turned up, dressed up, performed, laughed, sang, danced. They sung this beautiful college song, which is an ancient Latin song. And they sang it beautifully from prep to year 7. And that was our proudest achievement. To see all that come together, all that work in a beautiful day. And we actually capped it off with a race day with our families on Sunday. So it was a weekend of celebrations and that would be our proudest achievement, bringing everything together. 

JE: A biggest hurdle for the last 12 months? 

DM: I feel like I say the same thing every time you ask me this, Jo…

JE: It’s going to be time, isn’t it?

DM: … just managing that uncertainty around, you know, competing demands, construction, delivery, being on the dance floor too much and desiring to be present and knowing your community. So it is time. It’s absolutely time and juggling and look, the key learning: collaborate, communicate, be transparent. Have trust in your staff, and I think it comes back in spades. 

JE: OK, right, Dan. We’re nearly there; don’t worry. Each year, there are new schools popping up around Australia, in different school sectors, you’ve got different age ranges, contexts and so on, but they all have to start from scratch. That’s what they’ve got in common. As someone who’s just gone through that, through opening a new school – and I know that it’s still a work in progress, so we’re not saying it’s done – what’s your advice for others who are about to do the same thing? 

DM: Oh, look, if you’d like to come and have a chat, come and visit us. We’d love to see you or hear from you. But build a strong community from the start. Get to know your parents and your community. Have some fun with it. Try the one-percenters, the different ideas. Recruit hard. Recruit hard, and if you don’t see exactly what you want, re-advertise and I would say recruit for potential, recruit for energy and enthusiasm and collaboration and adaptability. Be prepared for the challenges, you’re going to have them. If it was easy, everyone would do it, I guess. But stay flexible in your approach and have the confidence that it’ll all work out. And, yeah, look, don’t underestimate the importance of really clear communication and collaboration with your staff. 

JE: Good advice. Finally then, I’m going to come back to you in 12 months’ time for an update. What are your aims and hopes then, for the next year at Notre Dame? 

DM: Next year’s a big construction year for us. And so to see that come to completion will be extremely rewarding, but more importantly, just to continue to build on that strong foundation that we’ve established in terms of our school culture, you know, collaboration, participation, student agency. Our students are working towards their own goals with their grade-point average at the moment, seeing them striving to take ownership of their own progress and their own improvement is exciting. I’d like to see that become quite embedded in our school culture. 

JE: Well, that is it. We’ve reached the end of the series. Thank you so much for being our Series 3 principal. I’ve had an absolute blast. I’ve really enjoyed speaking to you every month. I’ve really appreciated all the extra effort you’ve gone to, and you know, like you say, just been really kind of transparent and open and sharing some of those things that have happened, because I know it’s difficult to kind of go back and reflect on that as well and share some of those things like, you know, challenges and hurdles and things like that. So that’s been brilliant, but also just sharing those successes as well. And like I say, you seem like you’ve had a lot of fun up there with the team. I know that it’s been a real team effort, but I really appreciate, you know, our chats and you leading that. So it’s been fantastic. I’m going to have to go on some kind of tour I reckon, some kind of tour of the country and then I can come up and see you and say hello. But yeah, I will be back in 12 months’ time. Congratulations again on everything you’ve achieved. Well done to you and the team, well done to the students and the families there. It’s been absolutely fantastic. 

DM: Well, Jo, we’ve just installed a little podcast studio in our school library. You’ll be happy to know I’ll have to send you a photo of that. But how about next year when you come, we can produce it in our studio. 

JE: That sounds fantastic. What a great idea. 

DM: You just got to get up here to Queensland. 

JE: I can arrange that. Don’t worry about that. That’s been fantastic. Thank you so much, Dan. You have a fantastic rest of the year. Enjoy the break that’s coming your way as well. And like I said, best of luck for the rest of 2025. 

DM: Thanks, Jo. It’s been a pleasure. I appreciate all of your support. Thank you. 

Well, sadly that’s all for this episode – and that’s all for another series of School Assembly. Thanks again to the wonderful Dan McShea, Foundation Principal of Notre Dame P-12 College in Queensland, who we’ve been following for the last 12 months. If you want to keep listening, there are more than 360 episodes from the last 11 years of Teacher podcasts to choose from, including the first 2 series of School Assembly, as well as our series on Behaviour Management, School Improvement and our monthly Research Files. Find those wherever you get your podcasts from. Hit that follow button to make sure you don’t miss out on new episodes. And please leave a rating and a review while you’re there – it helps more people to find the podcast and it’s a really big support for the Teacher team. Bye! 

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Other episodes in Series   3: 

As a school leader, reflecting on the last 12 months, what is your proudest achievement, biggest hurdle and key learning?