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Andrew Broadley: Hello and thank you for downloading this podcast. I'm Andrew Broadley.
Jo Earp: I'm Jo Earp.
Dominique Russell: And I'm Dominique Russell.
AB: Thank you for joining us. It's now December, which means it is time to slowly start winding down for the year and it also means it’s the time to look back at the year that has been Teacher 2024. So, today we're looking back at our podcast highlights, the episodes that were the favourites of the Teacher team and, who knows, maybe a few of our picks will also be the favourites of you at home.
AB: I don't know about you 2, but I loved preparing for this podcast. It meant I just got to sit back, chuck the headphones in, and listen to a fairly significant number of the podcasts that we've published this year and be reminded of some of the pretty awesome conversations that we've had. How have you 2 found it?
JE: Oh, yeah, I agree. It's been really interesting going back and listening to a few again, because you kind of pick up different things on sort of second and third listens. Yeah, I don't know, what do you think Dom?
DR: I agree. It's been such a varied year for us this year and I feel like I say that quite frequently with these end of year wrap-ups.
JE: Yeah, you said that last year.
DR: But every time I'm looking back on the year, I think. ‘Oh yeah, we did that. I remember doing that’ and it's just great to see such a range of conversations that we've had, people across Australia, people internationally, and we've been doing a lot of looking back this year with our ‘10 years of the podcast’ that we're celebrating too. So, if our listeners enjoy listening to this episode now and you haven't listened to our wrap up of 10 years of podcasting, that should definitely be the next episode that you listen to.
AB: For sure.
JE: Yeah, that would have been a bit meta if we had picked the ‘10 years of podcasting’ as a highlight of the podcast highlights of the – yeah, OK, sorry.
AB: Sweet, I think we should probably just get straight into it, right? So maybe Jo, did you wanna go through, I think you've got 3 picks do you?
JE: Yep. So, I've chosen 3 and, as usual, it's really difficult to choose them. I've chosen [them] for sort of different reasons. First one was my interview with Professor Geoff Masters, who was then CEO of ACER. And it was part of a miniseries actually, it was a 3-part miniseries about world class learning systems, and it was all the way back in February, can't quite believe it's all the way back in February because it feels like yesterday that we actually recorded them. He basically looked at, for his book, he looked at 5 world class learning systems. So they were: British Columbia, Estonia, Finland, Hong Kong and South Korea. So, in that series we talked about what they have in common, what they've been doing in terms of policy and practice to support students. The episode I've chosen from the 3 is Part 1, and this snippet here is Geoff talking about embedding a broad range of competencies and skills in the curriculum.
…but I think one of the things that we can start to see now is more efforts are being made to say, well, critical thinking is actually an important part of development in Science, for example. It's not something that sits outside Science, it's actually an integral part of developing proficiency in Science, the increasing ability to think critically. Or, creative thinking is an element of Mathematics, or an element of History. So, the point I'm making is that a number of these systems are now asking the question: How do we really integrate these kinds of capabilities, competencies, attributes into the mainstream curriculum rather than treating them as sitting outside, being addressed only through co-curricular activities or within specific areas of the curriculum? These are challenges that all these systems are currently grappling with.
DR: Yeah, that was a great clip that you chose there, Jo, because I liked how you picked up on the creative and critical thinking aspect that Geoff spoke about in that conversation because that's been a recurring theme for us throughout the year with the PISA findings that came out. I also, I just loved that that was a miniseries. We don't really often get the opportunity to do something like that when we look really in depth and that was a book that really did need those 3 episodes that it had. Yeah, it's something that resonated with our listeners. I know looking at the figures, it was a popular episode; and we know, again, from the PISA insights that we've looked at this year that creative and critical thinking is something that classroom teachers need a bit more support in, so it's definitely a relevant one too.
AB: Yeah, I agree. And really cool just to get an opportunity to look at what's happening in different parts of the world. I know myself, I've always been a bit of a geography nerd and looking at other countries and what they're doing. So, I really enjoyed that series. Thanks for sharing that, Jo.
JE: Number 2 then, links into that – creativity. So, this was episode 24 (if you want to look it up) of our Global Education podcast series. It's about a 3-year partnership called Creativity Collaboratives. I interviewed Sarah Childs, who’s Lead Practitioner at Penryn College in the UK, and Associate Professor Kerry Chappell from the University of Exeter’s School of Education. Really great interview, really stuck in my mind. It's actually from July. Like I say, look it up, have a listen to all of it, because it's a really excellent listen. They talk a lot about the partnership and how that came together, but also a lot of the outputs. This particular snippet is Sarah talking about one of the outputs of that research partnership.
The important part of the Toolkit was, it's about helping others, you know, develop what they think teaching for creativity might look like in their curriculum. It includes ideas to develop practice in schools and offers actually some ideas to try. There's even little lesson plans and ideas for just having a 10 minute, you know, give it a go kind of approach in a teacher's classroom, which I think is really exciting.
DR: And so, this was a pilot initiative that they were discussing in the episode, wasn't it, Jo? And so, when I was listening, I was especially interested in the last question you asked on the future of the project because, it being a pilot initiative I was curious to see what they'd say. So, it was interesting to hear about their idea to shift the model [to] working with students as researchers. I think that'll be really interesting to catch up on that hopefully sometime in the future and maybe invite them back on.
JE: Yeah, that would be nice, wouldn't it?
AB: Yeah, totally. I think creativity has been quite a big one for the year, hasn’t it, because I'm sure many of our listeners are aware with the PISA results that came out and everything, we had some quite nice results there for Australia and creativity. So, always an interesting topic to look at. One more from you Jo?
JE: Yeah. So, the third one, really recent episode that I did. Could be – is it my favourite one of the year? It's hard to say, look, I'm just going to say top 3 because it's hard to put them in an order. But a definite highlight for me, it's School Improvement, Episode 55 on instructional leadership. So, like I say, only recently did this one, it's Professor David Hopkins. I caught up with him ahead of his keynote – he's a keynote speaker at ACER's Research Conference 2025, which is in February. So, he's going to be talking about unleashing greatness. So, his strategy for school improvement; he'll talk about that at the conference, and our chat was about one really small element of that – instructional leadership. I went through the episode again, it's really hard to choose just one snippet, but I've gone with this one. We’d just been talking about the importance of distributed leadership, and then I asked him about the specific role of the principal.
The first thing that great principals do is they create a sort of a narrative about the direction of the school, they make a story about where the school is going. And that is really important because the story links the staff, the students and the parents and the community. Typically, really good schools that I go into in Australia and elsewhere, I tend to sort of stand outside at going home time and talk to the parents about what the school is like; and the good schools, they always tell me about where the school is going, what the school stands for. And it's creating that sense of identity and what I would say moral purpose for the direction of the school.
DR: When I saw that you were picking this one as one of your favourites Jo, I thought the same thing, how is she going to pick a snippet to be able to share in this? Because there's so much in there and I'm really excited to see him in person at Research Conference in February next year. Like you say, you only spoke about one of the 8 elements; there's going to be so much more to unpack, isn't there? So that's really exciting. It was such a great conversation.
AB: Anyone listening that enjoyed that, check him out at Research Conference 2025.
Awesome. Thank you, Jo. Yeah, a good reminder there as well – these are a top 3 for each of us, but no particular order, because that is it's too hard to go ranking them in order, I think.
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AB: Dom, do you want to jump in now and tell us what you've picked?
DR: Yes, absolutely. So, my first pick is the first mention for the Research Files series for this episode. But, I have it on good authority that there will be a few more episodes of the Research Files that we'll be talking about soon. But this one is episode 91 in the series, and it'sThe long-term impacts of a sense of school belonging on mental health. So, I was joined by Associate Professor Kelly-Ann Allen from Monash University for this episode. And in the conversation, we delved into a really in-depth chat about a longitudinal study of teens age 15 to 16, which followed them until they were 27 to 28.
Now, as Kelly-Ann explained in the episode, this was a broad study and it was a really large study and herself and her colleagues just honed in on one aspect, which was the area of school belonging and the impact of that on mental health. And it was fascinating. What I really enjoyed about the conversation was how Kelly-Ann was able to express the importance of school belonging – because I think that's something that we speak about all the time but being able to put into words the long-term impact that a sense of belonging has on a student was really powerful. And we'll play a clip which shares the findings that they found in a second, but before, I also wanted to flag an element of the episode that I found really interesting, and I would have included if I could share 2 clips. It was when Kelly-Ann spoke about the teachers’ sense of belonging as well, because of course, this study followed people up until they were the age of 27 and 28, so they’re early career teachers, a lot of the time, so that was really interesting how she was able to circle back into that aspect of it. Anyway, let's hear from Kelly-Ann now on the findings.
Yeah, well the findings really provided some really rich evidence towards the significant role of school belonging in secondary school. So, the presence of feeling like you belong to school (while you're in secondary school) and predicting lower levels of anxiety, depression and stress across adulthood at those 3 critical time points that I mentioned before (19 to 20, 23 to 24 and 27 to 28). So that sense of feeling like you belong to school had a relationship with lower levels of anxiety, depression and stress right up to the age of being nearly 30 years old. So, really rich, interesting, substantial data or evidence of why school belonging is important.
JE: Yeah, I loved this episode too, nice pick Dom. I went back and listened to it again, obviously just to prepare for this, and as you were saying, what I found really interesting, and a good reminder, was that link to not just students. So, we know that higher levels of school belonging appear to be associated with lower mental health symptoms across young adulthood, but just keeping that front of mind for everyone really in the school. So, the staff, the leaders, she says in the episode, you know it might be the specialist that comes in once a week, it might be the casual relief teacher and thinking about how you are providing opportunities for that sense of belonging. So, you know, what kind of groups are you a member of, social networks and so on. So, really nice reminder in that episode.
AB: Yeah, a really great choice there, Dom, and an important episode as well. What about your second pick?
DR: So, my second pick, surprise surprise, is also an episode from the Research Files. It's a more recent one, and it was on the topic of toxic masculinity in schools. I felt like I had to mention this one because of its relevance at the moment, and also how much it immediately resonated with our audience. I remember seeing that it was the most clicked on story in the weekly Teacher Bulletin that it appeared in, which immediately means that it's something that people are really interested in hearing more about and perhaps they need more support in. In the episode, we were joined by Dr Naomi Pfitzner who is the Deputy Director of the Monash Gender and Family Violence Prevention Centre, and Dr Stephanie Wescott from the Faculty of Education at Monash University. And it was really great to have both of their perspectives in the episode, because obviously Naomi had the insights on the gender and family violence aspect and Stephanie was able to really, clearly and coherently link it back to education, the relevancy there and also the teacher perspective.
And so, the discussion was about a research project that is about to begin, actually, which is a little bit different perhaps than what we usually cover in the Research Files. But the bulk of the conversation was around research that's already been done into what female teachers are facing in the classroom today. And that was really eye opening and, for obvious reasons, quite shocking for me to hear. The other aspect that was quite eye opening for me was their findings on how this behaviour of male students is impacting the female students in the classroom too. I think that was a really important pickup for me. And, of course, towards the end of the episode it was also great to hear that it wasn't all doom and gloom, shall I say, because they're doing some fantastic work on being able to create some professional development resources for teachers that will be really practical by the sounds of it.
So that is what I have picked for my clip here. It's Naomi sharing how they will be able to hopefully produce some professional development resources for teachers on the topic of critical reflection and why the topic of critical reflection is important in that space.
Some of these young boys and some of the stories we hear where they're mimicking some of, you know, Andrew Tate's catchphrases or sayings that they [see] online, they may not have even reflected on what's the actual meaning and impact on them and why it is problematic and why it is harmful. So, it's not just sufficient to kind of reprimand students when we see this behaviour. If we actually want to achieve attitude and behaviour change, we have to engage them in critical reflection. We have to get them to do that deep thinking and think about – maybe it is going to be challenging some of their deeply held biases and values. And that's going to take time, but hopefully, you know, the aim with this research is that we're equipping teachers with the skills to be able to support that ongoing work in building critical reflection. And it's not just important in this space when we're thinking about gender-based violence prevention, but there is so much mistruth and misinformation in the world that critical reflection is becoming such an important life skill.
JE: That was a really difficult episode to listen to in terms of it being confronting. I think it's such an important topic to speak about, it's good that more people are speaking out about it. It's good that this research is taking place that, you know, ourselves, and other media and publications and so on are giving it space and sharing what's happening in this space and just giving some opportunity to share the voices and experiences of teachers who are having to put up with this. And the fact that it's become a ‘normal’ – I’m pretty sure that was the word used in the episode – you know, it's become a normal part of being a teacher, which is just shocking, really. And, like you say Dom, also the impact that it's having on others in the classroom. You know, they mentioned about girls apologising, girls apologising for the behaviour of others and so… yeah, I think a really important episode. If you haven't heard it, please go back, have a listen to it. I'll be really interested to see what comes out of those co-design workshops and the pilot PD next year.
AB: Yeah, great episode. And like you say, Dom and Jo, I really do encourage you, if you haven't listened to that one yet, to go back and listen to it because yeah, some really relevant and important stuff in there. And you've got one last pick for us, Dom?
DR: Yes, we'll end on a bit of a higher note for my selections, shall we? This one is from our School Improvement series and it was all about successful school-university partnerships. I really loved this conversation because it was filled with so many practical pointers. I was joined by Lesley Johnson, who's the Head of Pedagogy and Practise Development at Trinity College in Adelaide, and Simon Leonard, who is Professor of the Learning Sciences at the University of South Australia. So, as I'm sure you can guess, it's Trinity College in Adelaide and the University of South Australia that have a partnership that we were kind of dissecting really in our conversation.
And I really loved it because we often speak about the positive impact of school-university partnerships and how that can positively impact student outcomes and teacher efficacy. We know that quite well, but what we speak about perhaps less frequently is how these partnerships come about, but also how they remain sustainable – which is such a key element, isn't it? To be able to create a partnership that is going to endure, and no matter which staff leave the organisation, no matter what happens, there is that strong commitment to the outcomes of the partnership that keep it going. And so, Simon and Lesley were both really open and candid about the benefits for the school and the university side. You know, they spoke about things like valuing each other's expertise, building teacher capacity, pathways for students too, which is an obvious one there. The clip I want to share with you though is Simon sharing one strategy that they have for making sure the partnership will remain sustainable, which I found really interesting. So, here's Simon.
Some other things that I think we've done well on both sides of the partnership is to make sure that there is tangible short-term benefit for the staff that get involved. And I think that is, you know, for all we have talked about, it's flexible and it's long-term (and the leadership has really engaged at that level) but for busy teachers, for busy teaching and research staff in a university, trying to find the time to invest in what we do in this partnership can be hard. You sit there and go, ‘at the end of the day do I want to go and talk to that person from the university, that person from the school?’, and it can easily get bumped down your priority list.
JE: Yeah, this is a really easy one to talk about, ‘oh we're going to set up a partnership’, but a really hard thing to get right and for it to be effective. As you were saying, Dom, I really enjoyed in this episode the bit where they’re talking about that equal recognition in the weighting of the roles in the partnership; so it's not just the researchers and the theory and the academic side of it, and it's not just the teaching practice and, it's like all of our expertise coming together and everybody's got equal recognition there. And, you know, having a think about what's everybody going to get out of it from all sides? The other thing was Simon explaining about structuring it as formal PD.
DR: Yeah.
JE: … so they can fill in that PD requirement too. So yeah, really interesting way they've gone about it and, yeah, it's obviously working for them, which is great.
AB: Yeah. I really like one of the quotes in that snippet you shared there, Dom, where they're saying, ‘you know, at the end of the day, do I want to go and talk to this person from the university?’ You know you’ve had a long day at school, you're tired… and I think that's a thing that a lot of teachers have. You're busy, it can get bumped down the list… So, hearing how they're working to make that partnership really beneficial, that teachers want to go and get involved is really cool to hear about.
I guess that leads quite nicely into mine, because that's a School Improvement episode and School Improvement is a podcast series that I'm a big fan of and have chosen a couple of episodes for my top 3 because I couldn't resist. And the first one I chose is one on effective leadership communication. This is one of your podcasts, Jo. You spoke to Jacinda Euler Welsh, who is the Principal of Brisbane Girls Grammar school, and I thought this was just an awesome podcast that had some really practical advice for principals, for leaders, on how to effectively communicate. You know whether that’s with staff or families and community… The clip I chose is something that's really easy to forget – it's just about making sure that when we do communicate, it's so easy to want to make everything as perfect as possible, to be as refined as possible. Especially, you know, a principal, they're really representing the school when they do communicate, so it's natural to have that hesitancy. But Jacinda really spoke about just making sure you keep that human element because that's what people want to hear. They want to hear a human speak. So, I'll just play a quick clip from that now.
And also, because I think in schools, too, and I'm very conscious of it here, you have to make sure it doesn't sound corporate and corporate speak. We're in a very perfectionistic world where people are very quick to criticise. You can be, I think, overly conscious about getting it right and the greatest risk of all would be for everything sounding sanitised and corporatised, and therefore the words no longer have any meaning. So, I'm a big believer in it should sound like a human wrote it.
DR: Yeah, this was a really great episode to pick Andy. I think especially because we're at the end of the year now, I think this is something that would be really useful for any leaders that are listening, whether you're experienced or you might be new to the role next year, I think it'll be a fantastic episode to listen back to in anticipation of the new school year. Jacinda was really generous with everything that she spoke about. So, I think it's something that will stand the test of time and be relevant at the start of the year going forward.
JE: Yeah, I really enjoyed this episode. It was right at the beginning of the year. I think it was sort of January that we actually released it. There's a bit in the episode where she talks about how communication has changed, and she talks about the immediacy and urgency of messaging. But the bit that sticks with me is when not to communicate. So, she says, you know, sometimes holding your nerve and maybe saying a phrase, like ‘we'll give you more detail in time’ could be the way to go. So, choosing when not to communicate.
So, with that in mind, I'm going to keep quiet now.
AB: So, I will go into my second pick, which is also School Improvement. This was School Improvement episode 51, if you want to go and listen to that. And this is A Focus on Student Attendance. So, looking at the content that our readers enjoyed this year, I did notice that student attendance content was really popular. So, I thought that it's a great opportunity to talk about this podcast with Glen Kayes, who is the Deputy Principal at Kellyville High School in NSW. And they have had some fantastic success in lifting their attendance rates.
This clip I found really interesting, it was, they identified some students that they felt were kind of slipping into a bit of a pattern of falling attendance rates; they were around that 80 to 90% range. And they kind of identified those students and they went forward, and they talked to them, and they did a survey. And one of the things that I found really – or 2 of the things I found really interesting – was they say that a lot of the students didn't even realise that it was kind of happening. They were kind of surprised that they were falling into this category. And one of the things I really loved was as part of the survey, they asked the students ‘what can we do to make the classroom a better environment?’, ‘what do you want to see from your school environment?’ which you'll hear a little bit more about in this clip.
... we had discussions with those students in that 80 to 90% range. And it was quite interesting the feedback that came back when we approached those students – it was like ‘oh, am I in that range?’ There was sort of a lack of, even a lack of awareness that they’d even fallen into that attendance pattern, and just having that initial conversation with the students ... the first one literally was around what was the reason for your last absence – and there was ‘tired’, ‘family reasons’, ‘holidays’ and just a few options for them to select there. And there was some good honesty because I think that when you look through those answers a lot of them were probably around that ‘oh, you know what, I probably could have made it’. You know, there weren't that many sort of serious medical appointments and things like that that we that we talked about, that they identified. So that was sort of the first question, the other one was just rating a few things at school: Are the lessons interesting? Is the school comfortable in terms of its environment, both the classrooms and facilities around the school? Does my school have effective anti-bullying things in place? I have difficulty participating in class work. And then what changes could be made…
DR: We've spoken a lot to researchers over the years about attendance and the importance of identifying at risk students and also the importance of student voice that comes in to, you know, the broader school environment. So, it was fantastic to be able to hear from a deputy principal at a school in New South Wales about how they've really implemented that evidence into practice. And, again, to have a deputy principal be so generous with their time to be able to have a candid conversation about what's working well in their school is going to be something that's really helpful for all of our listeners. So, a great episode to choose.
JE: Yeah, we know the link between student attendance and outcomes. And, it reminds me of an episode, a podcast episode, I did – oh my God, it must be in the first year of podcasting – with Steve Zubrick. And that was on attendance and that had loads of really good data in there about the link between attendance and outcomes. So, go back and have a listen to that as well in conjunction with this.
Yeah, the thing that's interesting with attendance, of course, is firstly, are the students aware of it, are the teachers aware of it? And once you're aware of it, what's the reason for it? So, it's really cool how Glenn takes us step by step through the things they’ve have been doing to raise that attendance.
AB: That means I've just got one clip left now, and I have moved away from School Improvement, I promise. I've gone over to the Research Files.
DR: My favourite.
AB: Yeah, an equally fantastic podcast series, isn't it? And this one is on technology in education, and it’s actually one of yours Jo; you spoke to Edmund Misson from the Australian Institute for Teaching and School Leadership. And it's one that really stood out to me at the time because it was a topic that was quite fresh in my mind. I had just recently spoken to Daniel Edwards, who's a STEM teacher in Tasmania, and he was speaking a lot about how just, kind of, getting a bunch of fancy tech doesn't inherently improve learning outcomes. You actually need to think about ‘what are the learning outcomes that we're trying to achieve?’ and ‘how would this technology help support that?’ And I think some of what Edmund spoke about in this podcast really kind of touches on that idea of, you've got to make sure that the technology actually supports those learning outcomes, but you've also got to support the teachers to be able to use that technology and figure out and experiment with it. How they can kind of make it work for their teaching practice.
So, I will play snippet of that now and that kind of touches on that topic.
Maybe the underlying assumption has been that the technology will drive a change in teaching practice and that, I think, doesn’t work. I think technology opens up possibilities, but it doesn’t automatically change practice, and why would it? So, one of the things that we do identify in the Spotlight reports is that just using technology to reproduce the same sorts of teaching will get the same results. So, if I've got the interactive whiteboard and I use it in the way I used a traditional whiteboard or a blackboard, then of course nothing will change in the teaching and learning, but it does open up possibilities. So, I think we need to again, as you said, take a breath, take a step back. Think about what we're trying to achieve and how the technology can enable that, and then give teachers and leaders some time to work with the technology and to experiment a bit. Because there's no one way to teach, there's no one way to teach any content, there's no one way to teach any students, and there's no one way to teach with any technology. So, it's going to have to be contextualised, teachers are going to have to get comfortable with it and they're going to actually have to develop their own evidence base, if you like, in their own context.
DR: Yeah, this was a great episode, Andy. Good pick. I really liked that as well, that element of it where he was speaking about professional learning to do with technology. And that's something that really stuck out to me after I listened to it. You know, how he was saying that professional learning isn't necessarily always a given when it comes to technology roll out. And when you have that said to you, it seems like an obvious point but, in reality, perhaps that's not the case.
It also just made me think how it would be really interesting to hear from a school that's doing this really well. So, if that's you and you're listening, please email us to share about how you're doing this. I think that would be really interesting to hear about because I'm sure it's something a lot of people struggle with.
JE: Yeah, just teacheditorial@acer.org if you want to get in touch.
Yeah. Really loved my chat with Edmund and I actually got to do this in person, which is always really nice; it's always good when we can do them live. One of the points that stood out to me was, he was mentioning about, you know (and it makes total sense, really), we're not always going to have a really, really strong evidence base. Because the technology is moving so quickly then maybe we're not going to have, you know, a couple of years or whatever it is to do research into the impact of it and the effectiveness and sort of have that peak research output. But we do know what effective teaching and learning looks like, so that should be the starting point. Let's think about teaching and learning and then think about the technology alongside that.
AB: That is our final podcast of the year, and we will be back next year, of course, so don't miss us too much, we will be back soon. And, in the meantime, make sure you follow us on all our socials, jump on teachermagazine.com to listen or read any of our content, or just pop on to wherever you listen to your podcasts.
And please don't forget to leave a rating and review on this episode as it always helps more people like you find our podcast. So, thank you again and enjoy the new year.
JE: We'll see you next year.
DR: Thanks to everyone for listening.
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